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It makes THEM chase YOU

 Is there too much information out there on this topic?

Have we reached info-saturation on pickup and attraction?

I was pondering this the other day as I was putting together information for a presentation, and it stuck with me. I think that the subject of attraction and pickup should be as easy as possible to learn and to use.

A few years ago, I was subscribed to a bunch of newsletters on the topic of seduction. After a while, it got to be just way too much, and it was making it harder for me to arrive at my own understanding.

You’ll find that lot of the info out there is basically the same. Everyone wants to convince you that THEY have found the answer. What we’ve found is a bunch of answers to a lot of questions – not just one.

We don’t need more complex models and clever diagrams. We need CLARITY.

You need more exercises that will actually put you on the path to getting better with women, and in all social situations. You need more examples and maps to find the path that suits you.

Have you noticed that there are very few people who can give you exercises that are PRACTICAL at helping you with the Inner game?

Why is that?

Let’s look at the problem. First of all:

1) You need motivation.

Face it, we all want to be motivated and inspired by someone. It’s hard to stay motivated every day and all the time. Humans are lazy by nature. The funny thing about laziness is this: We go through all kinds of EFFORT and WORK to be lazy.

How do you think such things as the remote control and the recliner with drink holders were invented?

Human beings put out unbelievable effort in the NOW to avoid work in the LATER.

Each one of those people that invented those time-saving, effort-saving things thought it was a wonderful idea, or they just wanted to get rich. Either way, they motivated themselves with the promise of a better future if they would just invest time in something right now.

Think about that for a minute, then rejoin me. I’ll be here.

Now as for motivation, well that’s like taking a shower. Every time you get it, you feel great, but it wears off. Tomorrow, you’ll need motivation all over again.

NOBODY is motivated 100% of the time, no matter what you may think.

NOBODY is good with women 100% of the time.

NOBODY is happy 100% of the time.

It all comes down to your own fire and drive. Moods come and go, but action speaks volumes.

It’s YOUR job to find what motivates you and leverage it to keep you going. I don’t care if it’s tapes or e-books or 2 triple espressos in the morning. You have to go to the source of your motivation and drink from the well, my friend. Don’t think that reading an e-book once or watching a program once will get you that motivation. You have to be willing to pick it up and re-read it ten times (minimum) to really start to ingrain the beliefs in your thinking.

2) You don’t need another graph/chart/picture/clever analytical method. You need ANSWERS.

There are some guys out there that are so hung up on the analytical side of this stuff that they get into REAL trouble when it comes to making more pictures of how to graph attraction and buying temperature and social value and

Jeez, Louise. It’s time to put your scientific calculators away and just own up to the ACTION you must take. To improve your inner game will require work – and some of it might scare you.

Ultimately, the more information you try to find out there, the more you are really trying to avoid DOING what you know you must DO. We’re seeking the Holy Grail of attraction and pickup techniques, but what we end up doing is not putting the EFFORT in. By studying instead of doing, you get to feel the pleasure of learning and avoid the pain of practicing.

Remember: Anything worth doing will NOT be easy.

Let me say it again.

Anything worth doing in life will NOT be easy!

And it’s not easy to get off your butt and go meet women. It’s much easier to sit inside and surf some nasty pictures or post to a forum. Or maybe even figure out if you plot the data points of a woman’s interest against her body language you’ll get the square root of
well, nothing.

On the other hand, if you can accept the total reality that if you learn AND apply, you will succeed. It is as inevitable as the day following the night.

I believe in the Jeet Kune Do philosophy as applied to the Art of Attraction. I call this (jokingly) “Jeet Kune Dating.”

Here’s your acronym for the week. I offer it to clarify and help. If it doesn’t do that, forget it.

R.E.A.L.

R = Relaxed & Resourceful – Cool and calm keeps you at your best, your ability to connect to your innate abilities.

E = Effective & Energized – It has power – Alpha Power. Raise your energy level.

A = Authentic & Alpha – It has to be YOU, and it has to be the Masculine you.

L = Lifestyle & Lasting – Because it’s NATURAL to you, you’ll never lose it – No separation from your identity.

R.E.A.L. Game. This is what I use to help guys get their inner game solid.

Back to Bruce

Bruce Lee sought to reconcile all the various styles and methods he saw in the community of Martial Arts. He created the Tao of Jeet Kune Do as an answer to this, explaining that NO-style should be your style. It comes from a personal set of beliefs.

I try my best to perform the same function for guys today. By providing them with tools that they can adapt to their personalities, they can build on the foundation of their REAL selves to achieve success more readily.

Other methods often require you to slap a whole structure on top of a foundation (i.e., personality) that it may not fit. It makes more sense to start with building locks of that person’s personality type to give them their own individual approach. In the end, every man that achieves true success with women will end up with his own UNIQUE style anyway.

Wherever you go, there you are.

In the Tao of Jeet Kune Do, Bruce Lee’s book on his philosophy of fighting arts, he talks about the six diseases that plague us. I think they are frighteningly relevant to the art of attraction and pickup, and so I offer them to you here. Consider also that following anyone “system” is only a stepping stone to greater growth. In fact, if you follow any particular system of pickup or seduction (or whatever you choose to call it), then you are also using a ‘technique,’ but in a much larger sense. You’re using one BIG technique.

Now, the six ‘diseases’:
1) “The desire for victory.”

Ah, how this plagues so many men. The need for results and desire for women puts us in a dangerous headspace. We must let go of attachment to results, but pursue them to a conclusion.

2) “The desire to resort to technical cunning.”

Again, too strong an attachment to a technique fails to grasp the understanding that we must all CUSTOMIZE our approach to our R.E.A.L. selves.

3) “The desire to display all that has been learned.”

Wow. I have to raise my hand at that one. I’ve done this a lot. You learn a ton of clever stuff, and you gotta unload it. In the end, you probably could have done without it all. You just act from the confidence that HAVING it means you don’t have to USE it.

4) “The desire to awe the enemy.”

This would be all of us. What guy hasn’t let his ego creep into his approach or interaction with a woman and ruin things by being the braggart or boaster? Just Relax and let her discover you. Not get overwhelmed by you.

5) “The desire to play the passive role.”

We, as men, must be the initiators. I know there’s a ton of clever stuff out there that appeals to a guy’s desire to not approach or not take action to get women attracted to him, but the REALity persists. You must be the one to take action. Initiate. It’s your destiny and your birthright. Don’t shirk it.

6) “The desire to get rid of whatever disease one is affected by.”

This one is the toughest to understand, in that Zen koan sort of way. I think what is meant by this is that to succeed, you can’t be constantly wrestling with your weaknesses. You can’t let go when you’re trying to get rid of them.

You must simply dilute them with the power of your strengths. I think that a big part of this thinking is that if I focus too much on overcoming my weaknesses, I succumb to them.

Take that with a grain of common sense. Desire is a part of human nature. But in the end. you will only be as successful to the degree that you LET GO, not cling desperately to your ‘style’ or your ‘techniques’ or your methods. Remember, long after all the clever lines and approaches have been exposed, your authenticity and REAL character will never be out of style or a liability. You can’t get CAUGHT if you’re being YOU.

Get REAL.

BE real.

Brad P.
Real Life Examples of SEXY STEREOTYPING in Action

Did you know that girls make funny little lists of what they’re looking for in a guy? Yup, it’s true. I talk pretty openly about my work as a dating guru with lots of different girls, and sometimes they give me some pretty interesting inside information.

One thing I’ve noticed in my own life and when teaching students are that women have certain “sexy stereotypes” hard-coded into their brain. If you can tap into these stereotypes, it makes everything easier moving forward. Let me give you a few examples.

A few weeks ago, I was talking to one of my girls and she was telling me her roommate wants a guy with 3 qualities:

1. Asian guy
2. Indie rock look
3. With a car

That’s all she’s looking for and she can’t seem to find it. Weird huh? If a guy with these 3 qualities approached her, he’d probably get laid with little or no game.

Another girl was telling a story about how she used to go and hit on any guy that had a “fuzzy in the back.” Translation: fashion mullet. Then she was disappointed because every guy she hit on turned out to be gay. Another hot chick leading a sexually frustrated existence.

A third girl I spoke to told me she immediately liked me because I had the same leather jacket as Uncle Jesse from an old sitcom called “Full House.”

What’s going on here?

Do girls really choose guys based on weird criteria like having a fashion mullet or a John Stamos jacket?

The answer is yes they do. Sounds simple I know, but it’s a deeper concept than you may realize.

The fact of the matter is that girls stereotype you in the first 2 seconds when you approach them. If she stereotypes you as a “sexy guy” the approach is going to go much better than if she stereotypes you as an average guy or a loser.

Sometimes, girls just light up automatically because you fit their idea of what a sexy guy is.

Other times, you have to dig yourself out of a hole because she already thinks bad things about you before you even do your opener.

You can learn all the techniques and great openers in the world, and that’s a necessary part of the game, but if you haven’t created a look and an identity that are easy for girls to stereotype as “sexy” then you’re making things more of an uphill battle than they need to be.

In our culture, the word “stereotyping” has a bad reputation. It’s been vilified quite a bit in the AFC mediaLook up this term. We see it every day- people on TV who say “Stereotyping is WRONG! You have to evaluate people based on the content of their character!”

While we all may agree with this in theory, we also know that this is the real world. Attractive women are not going to give you a chance to show “the content of your character” unless you create powerful attraction in the first few minutes. If you look like a Trekkie, most women will write you off as a loser even if you have the great inner game or a great opening line.

Beautiful women who get approached a lot have no choice but to immediately stereotype you based on your appearance, voice tone, and body language. It’s just not practical to get to know lots and lots of guys. So they go with their “gut instinct.” A lot of that “gut instinct” has to do with how she stereotypes you before you even say anything.

If you can figure out how to make women stereotype you as a sexy guy, amazing things start to happen. You may get same day lays, kiss closes in minutes, fewer cock blockers, logistics get easier. All the other parts of your game seem to suddenly come together and you get RESULTS.

So how does one harness the power of sexy stereotyping?

Start by realizing that there are many stereotypes hard-coded into the female brain that you can use to your advantage. We all know what the sexy stereotypes are, even AFCLook up this term know that. Here are a few examples:

rocker guys

rappers

bikers

gothic guys

club players

metrosexuals

male models

Latin lovers

tough guys

mafia guys

athletes

Even normal, conservative girls are attracted to guys that fit these sexy stereotypes. But very few men have the balls to transform themselves into someone who can be stereotyped as a sexy guy.

Most guys are afraid to change their look and their identity for 2 reasons:

1. It takes them out of their comfort zone.

2. They are afraid friends and family will give them a hard time.

It’s true, if you change the way you present yourself, some narrow-minded people will say, “What’s up with you? YOU CHANGED, MAN! You look like a FREAK.”

You have to expect that a few people are going to try to pressure you into being a bland, average type of person. They are afraid that if you raise your social value, you’re going to stop hanging out with them. It’s kinda like when you’re alcoholic friends try to get you to drink your life away. These people are THREATENED by the fact that you are improving. They are afraid they will LOSE you as a friend if you get cooler.

Many people harbor a secret resentment towards anyone with high social value. It’s a defense mechanism that allows them to continue their delusional ways. Is that the kind of person you want to have as a friend?

Get some balls and don’t worry about that. Start experimenting with how you’re presenting yourself.

Let’s get a little more concrete here and talk about sexy stereotyping as it relates to your style of dress. Of course, there are MANY ways to convey sexiness and tap into positive stereotyping, but how you dress is the easiest one! Why? Because you can take your time and plan it out. Then once you get it figured out you don’t have to work on it again until it’s time to update your style.

Body language and voice tone are much harder to improve, you have to think about them all the time for MONTHS until they become a habit.

Let me give you a step by step approach to turning on the power of sexy stereotyping.

1. Stop worrying about what your AFC friends think. Pay less attention to them and more attention to how women are perceiving you.

2. Take an active interest in style and fashion. As kids, we were all taught that if you’re into fashion, that means your a fag. Then our moms would order our clothes from the JC Penney catalog and sure enough, a dork is born. Now that you’re a grown man, you can be secure enough to take an interest in fashion and not feel like it makes you less masculine. One of the best places to do research on the topic is myspace.com There are thousands of people on there who have cutting-edge fashion knowledge, and they congregate in the “groups—>fashion” area of the myspace website. These are people who sit home all day getting all dressed up just to take pictures for myspace!

3. Start to identify sexy stereotypes when you see them. If girls are flocking to a guy or group of guys, have a look at how they’re presenting their identity. Pay attention to how they’re expressing their identity through their clothing.

I’m always looking for this, and I think I’ve recently discovered a new sexy stereotype. I saw these guys in a club a few weeks back with bad blazers and short hair in a ponytail. These guys were lanky and had big weird noses, but they were walking around like they owned the place. Girls were digging them. I realized what it was – the European vibe. I dubbed this look “Euro-douche” and filed it away for future use. Watch out for the Euro-douche look!

4. Choose a sexy stereotype that feels natural to you.

5. Find a person who has mastered the style and has a similar body type to yours.

6. Model your style after that person’s look. You must model yourself after the best in order to get similar results. I know your social conditioning is telling you that you’re a unique snowflake and you should never copy anything. I’m telling you from experience that modeling is the fastest shortcut to sexy stereotyping. There’s no need to reinvent the wheel. Don’t make things harder than they need to be. Do it the easy way. Modeling a person who already has it figured out will give you a huge head start. You can customize the look later when you have your developed your fashion sense a bit more.

7. Test it out. Don’t spend $1000 on 7 new outfits all at once. Try on a new stereotype and see what reactions you get. I’m talking about reactions from attractive women, not reactions from your Trekkie looking friends. If you’re getting good reactions from hot chicks, you know you’re onto something. If not, try something else.

8. Expand and refine. Enjoy success. Watch how much easier it is to attract women when they categorize you as a sexy guy. You’ll find you have less trouble with CBS, fewer blowouts, less LMR, and less flaking.

I work with guys on their style all the time and here are a few guidelines-

Guideline 1: Don’t worry about “blending in.”

If you seem like a normal average guy, you’ll often get the normal average result. Most attractive women reject normal guys all the time. This is their default response. Rejecting normal guys becomes a habit.

Normal guys who approach these women are usually needy AFCs. After years of being approached by normal looking guys who are needy, there is a correlation formed in the woman’s subconscious: Normal=Needy. I know it’s not fair, but we must deal with the world the way it really is, not the way we wish it would be. If you’re always worried about “blending in” and “looking normal,” all of the negative stereotypes from needy AFC will get transferred on to you! YIKES!

REMEMBER: There is massive social pressure on all of us to “blend in.” If you bend to social pressure all the time, you can’t expect to achieve greatness in this area or in life in general.

Are there girls out there who like “normal looking” guys? Yes, of course. But, these girls usually like sexy guys too. They tend to put normal looking guys in the “husband/provider” category, and sexy looking guys into the “seducer” category. Which category would you rather be in?

Guideline 2- Don’t be too confusing.

Some guys try to mix looks that just don’t go well together. I see it all the time. They’re trying to express the complex individualism that defines their existence.

But
.it’s not that deep.

And
.girls just don’t care.

You have to make a strong statement so they GET IT right away. Girls stereotype you in the FIRST 2 SECONDS! They’re not going to take the time to process how your glowing necklace reflects off your khakis. Don’t confuse their sense of stereotyping. If they don’t understand what you’re going for right away, you’re gonna be right back to digging yourself out of a hole. And who wants that?

Guideline 3: How far should you take it?

This is an interesting question. Should you just add a few elements of a sexy stereotype, or should you go all out? The short answer to this is that it’s all relative to your location. If you live in NYC or LA, and you want to do the “Male Model” look, you’d better go all out or it’s not gonna work. If you’re in rural Montana, a little goes a long way. As long as you dress like a model more than any other guy she’s seen this month, you probably will get a pretty warm response to your approach.

I’ve traveled all over the world meeting women, and I go all out with sexy stereotyping. “Going all out” will work everywhere, but it is not completely necessary in suburban and rural areas.

I’d advise you to overshoot your goal rather than undershoot it. Think big. If your gonna do this, go all out! In the beginning, you may feel weird. Feeling weird is a sign that you are FORCING your personality to grow. Get yourself a BIG BOLD style and let your reality grow into it. If you feel like you may have gone too far, but you’re getting good reactions from women, that means you’re doing something right. Give your personality some time to grow into your new look. Don’t panic and revert back to a being a scared, pussy-ass dude who looks just like everyone else.

You’d be amazed at the results you can get when girls are perceiving you as sexy instead of average. It changes the tone of the entire interaction. It changes the balance of power. It makes THEM chase YOU.

My students are sometimes amazed when I get makeouts in 30 seconds or end up dragging some girl off to the bathroom in 10 minutes. They ask how I do it and sexy stereotyping is a big part of why I succeed in 10 minutes while other guys take 10 hours or even 10 days to get into a chick’s pants.

Some have asked me why I’d just give away my secrets like this. What if every guy taps into the power of sexy stereotyping, then I wouldn’t be so successful anymore. The fact of the matter is that VERY FEW of the people reading this right now will have the balls to develop into a sexy guy. Are you one of the few guys who can make it happen, or will you file this away as just another piece of entertainment from the Internet?

Can you leave your comfort zone? Do you have the courage to stand up to social pressure? That is my challenge to you.

If you can take my ideas and turn them into real-world results, then you deserve every bit of success you get! There’s plenty of pussy to go around, and I applaud everyone out there who are making it happen.

I wish you the best in all your endeavors with women and in life in general, and I will see you at the Cliff’s List Convention in Montreal.

Coolaid:
Just a comment on the Underscore Mike/Rhino’s post:

Here is how I would handle the situation:

Her: We are raising money to buy drinks for the bride. You can kiss my thigh if you give me a dollar ( or whatever ).
Me: Oh, I don’t do that. BUT, I will give you TWO dollars if you win the 5 questions game. ( See Style’s demos, 2005 Cliff’s List workshop DVD )
Her: Sure! ( She always says yes b/c now she has a chance to make $2 instead of $1, plus it is fun )
Me: I tell you what. If you win, I will give you $2. If you lose, I get a kiss on the cheek. You wanna to play? ( Obviously, it is better to get a kiss from her instead of winning $ from her. This is a variation from the original Style’s demo. )
Her: Yes!

If you play the game right, they always lose. This way, you come across as a fun guy and you will end up with a kiss from her while she is having a good time and laughing. Then follow with your routine stack. I have used this many times with great success.

Dating and seducing

So she laughed at you? Seduce her sister. Her sister accuses you of trying to seduce her? Seduce her anyway. But not until you make her pay.

It occurs to me that changes such as (for the first time) sleeping with your friends (see Ray’s comments below), having or a threesome, wife-swapping or other activities where we move our comfort zones, we open our minds up to new possibilities, new experiences, to be able to explore the concept that you can make your fantasies your reality, that you can take that step and do those things that you only dreamed of before take courage. And it takes courage to make that leap in everything. Most men, when they first approached a woman, had to face their fears, insecurities and negative self-talks to force themselves to take action. And so it is with every new challenge, where you have to do what is uncomfortable, what is out of your ordinary experience in order to go after the things you want. And you don’t know what will happen; maybe your girlfriend will be turned on when you propose a threesome as opposed to take offense that you would bring someone else into your private intimacy.

Maybe that reserved appearance of that attractive woman is just a cover to wild tigress who worries that she may appear too easy or hungry. In fact, the more I learn the more I think that women are as eager to seduce men as men are to seduce women, it’s just that most men don’t go after them in a way that lets them express this. Instead of thinking about the negative, we should think of the positive. Lately, I find that when I am out with intelligent women the subject of limiting beliefs comes up (I guess because it is on my mind a lot lately). I know that I still deal with my own limiting beliefs which I am aware that I allow to prevent myself from obtaining everything I want out of women and relationships. And these e-mails document part of my journey to break free from my own hesitations and limitations while learning about women and myself in the process.

Recently I was out at a bar/restaurant where I ran into Carol, a very intelligent young lady who does business consulting and who I had introduced to some people who engaged her for some work. This kind of changed our relationship slightly from personal to business. I have known Carol for about 10 years and when I had met her we went out once or twice. I remember getting her back to my place, we were sitting on the bed and I made a move to kiss her. She laughed. Clearly, this was not working and I never dated her again and had been out of touch with her for a long time up until about 6-8 months ago. Things clearly had changed and I could see that she was looking at me differently. But at the bar/restaurant about a week ago, she was there with and so introduced me to her sister. While Carol is not bad looking (I am sure most guys reading this would find her quite attractive), her sister is definitely hot. To be honest, I take a perverse pleasure in sticking it to Carol because she had laughed at me even though I know that we are both different people today and I shouldn’t do that.

So I have this very warm, intense conversation with her sister who gives me her number. The problem with her sister is three fold: one, she is divorced with three kids; two, she’s too old (my age, 42) to get involved seriously with because I would want a family if I got that serious with someone (and not someone else’s); and three, she’s too intelligent and wise about relationships which makes her dangerous and I don’t want to get roped in because of reasons one and two. I have a friend who met a woman (I started up with her and a friend of hers on the street at the beginning of last summer, he went out with her and I went out with her friend) who has two kids and who is of a different religion (his family would have a very hard time with this) but he got deeply involved and is struggling to get out of it and I don’t want to get into the same situation.

So I am internally debating with myself as to how far do I want to take this with her sister. I decide to try and just close the deal and keep my perspective on things, so I call her up and invite her over for Tuesday night. Tuesday is the one night she can’t make it, so, pretending to check my agenda, I suggest Wednesday night which she agrees.

I tell her to just come over and we’ll talk and get to know each other. Wednesday night I speak to her and she agrees to come over for 8:30. At 9:30 she calls me up, very upset that as she has thought about it she is very uncomfortable with what’s going on with me. Firstly, the business of checking my agenda as if I was squeezing her into my schedule bothered her. She doesn’t date very often and when she does she wants it to be special and I made it like a business appointment. Then, I had the nerve to invite her over to my place for a first date. She thought I was a gentleman, not a womanizer (which she defined as a man constantly in search of a parent replacement, looking for something that isn’t real, etc.). And I insisted on it (she had asked me if I was sure that that was what I wanted to do and I said yes; this was not insisting in my book but I didn’t argue with her). Not to offer to take her out for a drink or a coffee, to pick her up, nothing. Well I listened to all of this and never admitted to anything. I said, “What did you think? Did you think I was going to invite you over to my place and then seduce you?”

I made comments to the effect that she ought to get real, that she isn’t getting me that easily. And it is true because even though she is very attractive, I am hesitant about getting roped in here and I believe my hesitation is part of the attraction to her. I am sure that most guys chase her for her looks (she in fact confirmed this to me when we did go out finally last night) and are only interested in nailing her. In the end, she calmed down and started to wonder if she had jumped to the wrong conclusions so she suggested we get together and we made plans for Friday night (last night). So I drop by my neighborhood flower shop and buy her a red rose before I pick her up. This shocked the hell out of her (“So you are romantic, after all” she says) and I took her to the local Sheraton for drinks in the lobby bar (this is a very nice place).

She did a lot of the talking and spoke freely about her sexuality, her life, her having never completely surrendered herself in a love relationship, etc. The conversation went extremely well and was quite deep and I could tell she was interested in some affection when we were leaving (when they stand so close to you that you almost have to ask for a room to breathe, the odds are pretty good). So I was warm but to a degree kept my distance and at the end of the date as I left her off she hinted about speaking with me again which I just didn’t say anything about (I wanted to leave her wondering if I would call again).

She kissed me on both cheeks but leaned into the first one in such a way that I could have made out with her but I didn’t take the bait as I have to make her pay for thinking that I was anything other than the best thing that could ever happen to her. Stay tuned for further developments.

Here’s the rub

Ross Jeffries vs. a hot girl
who do you relate to?

I will be in Toronto March 4th through 8th attending the Tad James Seminar on the 6th & 7th (probably will also be taking the optional “Huna” day on the 8th as well). I am planning on going out most nights I am there so don’t hesitate to contact me if you are in Toronto and would like to meet.

Hardwood: I currently have a challenge. After the Atlanta seminar in August, I practice ss on anything wearing a skirt like I was told. Here’s the rub: I met this widow 35, a 5 on a good day, ran pattern after pattern, ss language, etc
., she’s totally gaga over me. However, she’s not the problem, she has a 24-year-old sister that is a stunner and she’s my true goal. She will kiss me but nothing else because she knows how crazy her sis is over me and feels guilty. I’ve tried to battle this with multiple sexual patterns, but no luck, her damn sister’s feelings are paramount. Any suggestions?

My Comment: Find her sister another guy. Other ideas out there?

Tony: Another more books for your list (I’m reading it now, I’ll report back what I find): LoveTypes (ISBN 0380800144) by Alexander Avila 1999 Avon Paperback, US$13.50. You must have an extensive list of resources by now. I hoped you wouldn’t mind posting what you have come across thus far, so I can add what I have in addition.

My Comment: I have a sort of collection of How to Pick Up Women books dating back to when I was a teenager. I have some really old, out of print books in boxes at my parents’ house that I really have to dig out and write about one day.

Tony: I have read the Love Tactics I & II and found some helpful stuff, but found most of it supplication material. It’s still interesting to see what the rest of the world is reading. The main lesson from all this is what Ross taught: resetting the frame to allow ss to work, rather than forcing ss to work in the dating frame. I like to also study beyond Ross’ stuff and am an avid reader. Ross’ stuff is excellent and I want to absorb even more than ss. I didn’t get to meet you when we were in LA in January. Maybe at a future seminar, perhaps.

My Comment: Sorry to have missed you in L.A. I am always trying to get to Ross’s seminars if I can coordinate with everything else going on. So if you are at one, ask around if I am there and I would be more than happy to meet anyone reading this.

Bill: I just came across this book “Never Be Lied To Again” by David J. Lieberman. Sounds interesting. I read some of the reviews on Amazon. In your saying have you had many problems with lying HBs? Finding out if they are lying out to you I think would make it easier to call them on their shit. Or even possibly change your tactics in the seduction process. According to this book, you can know through the language that is being used. Much like using an HB via structured use of the language. With proper use of the language, one can detect deceit. Whats your opinion?

My Comments: Very interesting topic. Actually, my ex, when I met her, lied to me about absolutely everything and I found out about each and every lie. For some reason, I ignored these warning signs as if there was a higher purpose for me to get to know her. Normally I would run when this happens, but this time I didn’t. I guess overall I am better off for having known her and am still close friends with her. But that was the first and only time I pushed beyond the warning signs. As far as the general saying goes, I usually don’t run into the lying part too much. I usually run into interest or non-interest. How do you know someone is lying to you when you just met them? Most of the things they will tell you-you can’t verify at that moment. It is only after getting to know them that you find these things out, I would think. But I find that if you listen carefully, people will tell you everything you want to know which they may not necessarily have wanted to tell you. Ross says that you can find out everything before they even open their mouths but I am not sure I fully comprehend that one. But when you listen, it is amazing the stuff that comes out of people’s mouths.

Len: My friend can date 4 women at once because he gives them what they need. Even at 16, this guy was very successful with women and often enticed and slept with women in their mid-20’s. He says they come to him “to be loved”.

My Comment: He’s right. Women are turned on when you not only give them what they need but tell them you are dating other women, and can be shocked and excited when you let them know that they can date other guys (it isn’t realistic to tell them that you can go out with other women and then expect them not to go out with other men. The nice thing about it though is that if you treat them the way they want to be treated, they have no interest in other men and you get to have your cake and eat it too).

Bill (Commenting on my observations about talking to a woman when she is with a guy): With my limited time I have had the opportunity to try some stuff in front of a couple of boyfriends. You can be covert with what you are doing as most people won’t pick up on your hand gestures, as you link all the good stuff to yourself. However, in one situation I did say “as you move away from these things” gesturing to the boyfriend. He did ask for clarification. I reassured him that I was speaking about working too much. This other girl I had a chance to elicit her values. So when I invited her to lunch on a whim on Valentines Day, she accepted and then showed up with the boyfriend. Ok, so I took control of the conversation it was mostly her and I talking. Toward the end he pissed her off, he hadn’t notice what she was wearing the other day. Well she just starting working over some pineapple. A metaphor for him, I realized, but he didn’ pick up on this. So I pointed it out to him. Then I told her that you know that someone has deep RESPECT for you when they understand these subtle actions. Anyway, the unspoken message is I respect you and he doesn’t. She understood it. This one girl I will keep working on. I also have learned that most guys have no idea how to please a girl. And girls to fall into relationships by default as well. When I see this I consider the girl Fair Game.

Bill (Commenting on “Stumbling a bit on your words helps a lot in making it sound genuine, not like you are a real slick and do this all the time. Make it sound like you are making up what you are saying on the spot): I remember him talking about this at the seminar and used it with Savanna, the girl waiting to swing at the hotel.

My Comment: I was racking my brain to remember her name for some reason. This was at the hotel of the L.A. ss seminar; the Saturday evening the conference rooms were the site of a swinger’s party and there was a parade of couples going in there with some extremely hot and wildly dressed women. Savanna was waiting in the lobby for her “date” to show up, and a few guys from the seminar (Bill in particular) started talking with her. She was hot. I don’t know if Bill noticed, but she first distanced herself from him when she mentioned that she was waiting for her “friend” to show up, implying that it was a date. But as the conversation continued, she mentioned that she hadn’t seen him in six months (so she calls him to get together for sex). The perfect example of you should never assume things when a woman is with a man — this one was only with this guy to be able to get into a swing party and trade partners. Go figure.

Bill: I’m not sure that I want to stumble on my words a bit.

My Comment: I find that this is a good technique to stop and collect your thoughts for a moment. It also makes what you say sound more genuine, not like you were ready to recite something.

Bill: It might not be hypnotic. So what I do is to focus her attention inward and use with tonality and pauses. Seems more and more that I am going into state myself when I do this. And the words begin to flow more easily. Like I said I was caught off guard recently when I easily tranced out a couple of girls.

My Comment: Same thing happened to me the first few times I did it. You have her in the palm of your hand and you are so amazed it happened that you just don’t know what to do with it. If you can’t think of anything, you can always point out that she may enjoy a new direction for a change.

Bill: I did that the other day. And take it deep inside yourself. I think I have her anchored to go into trance when I use trance speak. My term for tonality, pauses, quiet voice and inward focus.

Bill’s niece Buffy has a friend Inga who claims to be gay (I suggested that she may be bi but he will need to find that out) who is into nude modeling and is going into a business venture which has her putting on a party where she is looking for bi women. I suggested to Bill that he tell her to put some ads on the Telepersonals or other phone line systems. There are a lot of bi women on there. She could also record an ad for you, one saying that she and her boyfriend are looking for women, etc. I think you would get some surprising results.

Halbster: (Commenting on what to say to a woman when you are telling her that you date other women): Another approach is acknowledging that you’re with a lot of women because you enjoy being with them, but what you’d like most of all is to find one woman who so totally delights you and gives you everything you want, everything you need that you choose to give her 100% of your energy, focus, and passion and devote your mind/body, heart & soul to her. “And, when a woman can really BLOW ME
.Away and satisfy me like that I will be happy to give her everything you could ever want.” Sally, you can feel that (touch her) can you not.

Halbster (Commenting on whether to approach a woman who is with a guy): Generally, I agree with Rick. There are enough HB’s so that I don’t need to chase after the ones with someone else. And, even if the dude isn’t the BF, he may be an aspiring BF and I don’t want to interfere. However, there are times when I will make an exception. ie when I sense the woman is waiting to be rescued, or the guy is an asshole. Sometimes having the guy there is an advantage. It shows more google/confidence and it communicates certain other things.

Halbster (commenting on: “That is why I will only spend time with people that are interesting. There has to be something really special about this person.” This comes across as being pretty arrogant) No, this isn’t arrogant. You are paying people you choose to spend your time with a compliment. You’re also stating I’m busy and I don’t have time for people who aren’t going to make it worth my while. This is a perfect balance. It shows that you respect yourself.

Marcus Surrealism: I took a couple of one-shot seminars from Leil Lowndes on non-verbal communication and body-language. I think of her work as a mixed bag. All of it works, but » works better in most if not all cases. She specializes in corporate management and sales training, so go figure. Examples: Folks generally position their hands such that their palms face you when rapport is happening. Similarly they will show you their knuckles when rapport isn’t happening. When a woman crosses her legs at the knees, it’s not a bad or good sign. If she crosses her legs at the knees but with a small gap between the knees, however, that means she starting to get a bit hot and bothered. A little fidgeting with the foot is an even better sign. When a man approaches a group of women, one of his feet will be pointing at the one he wants most. Lowndes will give advice on how to approach a woman at a party or coffee shop or wherever, but the » methodology works much better. Lowndes says you have to make eye contact once and see if she makes eye contact again within forty-five seconds before she’ll respond favorably to your approach. Utter supplicating bullshit. I’ve done it; it doesn’t help. Lowndes also teaches that what you say isn’t nearly as important as how you say it. While this is true to some extent, she takes it to mean that you can just flap your lips and get whatever you want as long as you have the right tone of voice. She is missing a lot of potential by ignoring what exactly you want to say. Her teachings generally fit into the dating model/framework anyway. She mentioned NLP once, but she talked about it as if the most powerful techniques NLP has to teach are mirroring and eye access cues. Good stuff that I have used to round out the ss material. I think you’ll probably find her book helpful though not earth-shaking.

My Comment: I think one of the big differences between Leil’s stuff and ss is that ss is created by a man who has had all the difficulties most guys have had in getting women. Leil is an attractive woman who has found a few tricks that work well; but she can’t relate to a real difficult case, I think. I read her book and while there is some good stuff in there, there’s no way I would conclude that this book alone would guide a socially challenged, unattractive looking guy to making any woman fall in love with him. And I don’t know about you, but the examples you mention aren’t earth-shattering signals. When a woman puts her hands on your lap, winks at you and licks her lips, then you have a strong sign of invitation. I think most of the other stuff is preliminarily positive indications, but not enough to consider as guarantees of success (if you don’t do anything stupid after). Ross also teaches about the effect of how you say something and how it can be extremely important (I remember the “Mary had a little lamb” exercise, where how it is recited can create all kinds of ideas in someone’s mind). So she is not necessarily wrong about this. I think most women have love and/or sex on their minds and if you can lead their thoughts to that place in their mind (even if you do it by reciting business statements in a seductive manner) they will think those thoughts. I think this is a great technique for many guys who have a really hard time crossing that barrier from the impersonal to the personal. This is something most people have difficulty with; where you go from talking about the weather to expressing an interest in someone in a more direct manner. If you can do it without compromising your position, I know that most guys would prefer that over taking a chance of being rejected. I don’t think in those terms anymore, but I remember how I used to feel.

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