Mystery the pick up artist introduces his “envy theory” to the seduction community, and Cliff’s List readers offer a variety of insights and comments.

Index To This Edition of Cliff’s List

– Dwane: Body Language in Planet of the Apes

– A Guru Master: How to Hook a Guy

– GoneSavage: Duck-Duck-Goose

– NightLight9: A Close

– Steve Boyley: How to Say “I’m the Right Age for You”

– Mystery: Mystery’s Envy Theory

– Lee: Jumping Into a Conversation

– Elroy: In Response to the Older Woman

– Ronnie: Question About Claude

– Halbmike: Extraordinary Opener

– Mystery: In Response to Ross

– Rio: Long Hair

– NightLight9: Comments



You may want to point out that we have “Microsoft Agent Theatre” on the site that contains a number of NLP patterns acted out by the agent characters (including NLP poetry in Peedy’s Palace Volume 2).


Re: Planet of the Apes, I was observing how the actors in the latest Ape movie moved … how the dominant chimp was always baring his teeth … getting in the personal space of those he dominated (and even of the Senator, whom he clearly did not).

Obviously, people can’t do ape-like movements, especially in business or sarging … but it drives home the power of body language in communication.

I met a woman on my recent trip to Texas who used this in a business deal … and it was very slick how she would commandeer and drive the session by using what bordered on blatant seduction.

If you’ve read “Prometheus Rising” by Robert Anton Wilson, in it he describes the “2nd circuit” brain—the mammalian, territorial circuit—that we share with other mammals, particularly with the apes.


A guru master:

(Commenting on “Jaime I would like some tips on how to drive him crazy and ways to wrap him around my finger.”):


1. Obviously looking good and smelling good, etc., are gonna be important. But more important is always going to be how you feel. If you want someone to feel good, go first. Right ?

2. If you really want to hook a guy, work on your tonality. This is so important, and alot of people miss this. Hypnosis is only gonna be as powerful as the tone and tempo that the hypnotist uses, and the same is true in relationships. Learn to speak in soft, pleasant tonality. Bathe him in tonality: sexy, rich tonality.

3. Be the innocent Sunday school teacher and the $1000 a night hooker. A man will only commit—truly commit—to a woman when she satisfies him sexually. If he’s too shy to tell you what he wants, I’ll tell you what every man wants: swallow it down, and pretend to enjoy it, too ! Be the slut he’s always dreamed of, but not too quickly. Make him feel that he’s earned it, because he’s so unique and special and you never have and never would do these things except for him. Watch porno movies. Learn what a “cumshot” is. Ask yourself, “Why do men want us to swallow it and take it all over our faces ?” (I’m getting horny) I’ll tell you why:

It makes us feel wanted, and truly loved and appreciated and powerful.

How many guys have had girlfriends that would “do anything” for them except that ? Almost all of us.

Now, any guy who can only be with you if you swallow is obviously shallow, and you should find someone else. But you asked for methods, and this is definitely gonna help !

4. Learn how to cook. Alot of girls think they can cook. I’m saying make sure you can cook at least a few dishes to perfection. Best way to a man’s heart (besides swallowing !)

5. Never, ever be a nag. If he leaves his clothes on the floor, don’t nag him … have fun with it ! Bandler suggests that when you see clothes on the floor, think “Oh ! He’s naked !” Either that or put tofu in it. Don’t play mother, and this is one of the most common and dangerous mistakes women make. Picking up after him, nagging him to do things, removing lint from his clothes, etc. No man is turned on by his mommy (besides Freud). He is a man, so treat him like one.

6. I could go on forever. Let him go out with his friends, even encourage it. He’ll be home earlier if you do. And make sure you get along with his stupid, immature idiot friends. I know they suck, but don’t criticize them either.

7. When a beautiful woman walks by, don’t freak out ! Instead, point her out to him ! Say, “Look ! Look at that ass ! Wouldn’t you like to slide your big, hard …” You get the point. If he can’t look at other women, he eventually will want to be with those women. Because he’ll feel trapped. Even go to strip clubs with him. Encourage him to look at these sluts, and let him get turned on by them. You will get the sex of your life if you do that ! This is one of the most beautiful acts of understanding that you can do. Or you could do what other women do: complain when he goes out with his buddies, and while he’s gone, make big, bright movies in your mind of him doing something nasty and enjoyable with another woman. That way, when he comes home, you’ll be so pissed that you’ll nag and yell and then he’ll go do what you were picturing ! I have found that this is the strategy that a lot of women use.

I could sit here and compose a book on this subject.



This goes along with the post on playing children’s games with women.


I’ve worked on Duck-Duck-Goose a couple times. You ever see a 4+ set of girls, talking, formed in a circle ? Duck … duck … duck … goose. I tap their heads and run around the circle after “goose.” I haven’t decided if it matters if my target is “goose” or not. No one has chased me yet. But it is a major break-state. Plus it gets the whole group involved, instead of isolating your target.

I did it last night at an outdoor concert. 5 set. The goose didn’t chase. I act disappointed and say, “What, you don’t like Duck-Duck-Goose ? We can play Simon Says instead.”

The goose says, “Okay, I’ll be Simon. Simon says, ‘Go get that guy’s hat.’”

I go over to this guy and say something like, “I know this is kinda immature, but see that girl over there, she thinks you are cute but she is too nervous to come talk to you.” All the girls are watching and laughing, wondering what I am telling this guy.

I come back to the 5 set and say, “He’ll be over in a minute. He thinks you’re cute too.” Everyone laughed. This is ambiguous because she doesn’t know what I said to the guy, and she probably interpreted it to mean, “He thinks you’re cute, as do I.” Then there were intros and small talk. This girl and another were taking turns asking me questions. I kept them laughing and fired a few questions back. I number closed with, “There’s a Tug-Of-War contest next weekend and I want you all on my team.” Turning to the targeted girl I say, “Give me your number and I’ll call with the details.”



A Close: Picking out my Pimp clothes (for a pimp cruise) with Brenton on Wed. Started giving this sales girl (7 face, only due to some slight acne; 9 bod, ballerina …) a real hard time. She was wearing a summer camp shirt from Kansas, and we kept saying what she was doing was strange and that it was because she was from Kansas (even though she kept denying she was from Kansas).


Then she asked where we were from, and we both say Kansas. Now I have a slight Boston accent, and Brenton has a heavy Australian accent, so this is pretty funny. She would say “I’m from Ohio, not Kansas.” To this I would reply “That really explains it … you must really be amazed to see what the Ocean looks like !” Her, “Ohio’s not that bad.” Me, “Yeah, it’s a real downer … no Woolworth’s here” (This is working because she likes this verbal sparing. You always have to monitor how much she needs, and then pull back without really putting her off. It also helps to have traveled or know people who have so you can pull shit like Woolworth’s out of your ass to build a little rapport / curiosity …)

Anyways, this continues as Brenton tries to pick out his stuff (he’s doing a good job of giving her a hard time, too). I keep joking with her and building chemistry, but I’m still non-committal (she’s cute, but not a SHB). She is clearly having a good time and is receptive.

At one point, she had to chain up one of the dressing rooms, and I could have kiss closed her by the stall, but I decided against it as I just didn’t feel like it (I kind of wish I had now). I don’t know if I can explain this too well, except to say that she wasn’t paying attention to what she was doing, she was paying attention to me. She was making so much eye contact and her body language was so open. She was standing in a way that it would have been very natural for me to step into her personal space and kiss her. Women don’t accidentally put themselves in these positions …

Anyway, Brenton and I left and came back about an hour later on our pimp clothes quest. When we came back, I asked her where we could get a cane. Still great response and she made a good suggestion. So we went and bought one.

We came back about 15 minutes later with a fly cane, and Brenton looked at some more shirts. I decided to close her. I started to qualify her.


NL9: Have you ever been snow boarding ?

HB: I can’t do physically dangerous stuff.

NL9: Ballerina, huh ?

HB: How did you know that ? (Good cold reading, no ? : -)

NL9: You know I had the strangest experience the other day, me and my friend were riding our motorcycles …

HB: You ride a motorcycle ?

NL9: Yeah, but I can’t take you on it … it’s too dangerous (I’m such a bastard) Anyway, were riding and …

HB: All my friends always say that.

NL9: That’s because you’re so delicate. Anyway …

HB: But I really like them !

HL9: Anyway (feeling she might dig that, but she didn’t, and she seems a little bored, so I finish the story with) “But I don’t know if your into animals at all …” (and everyone likes animals).

HB: (false connection I implied sarcastically with a smile) No, animals suck. I hate animals. (The desired effect, of putting the onus on her.)

NL9: (Minutes later, she’s now fixing some shirt on a rack.) Those look much better now that you adjusted them. It makes a real statement. (Look up and makes eye contact) Do you want to get some coffee sometime ?

HB: (At first she ignores my question but I can tell she’s thinking and she wants to say yes. After a few seconds she says “Yeah,” referring to my offer, but I ignore it and keep talking.) That was delayed response to your question.

NL9: I know.Do you want to give me your number so I can call you ?

HB: Yes, but I’m deciding … How old are you ?

NL9: 35

HB: No, you’re not.

NL9: 105


NL9: Guess.

HB: Just tell me.

NL9: 27

HB: That’s so old.

NL9: Yeah, I know … I’m really old.

HB: (Buying time while she thinks.)

NL9: So are you trying to decide if I’m safe ?

HB: … I already know you’re not safe

NL9: That’s right, I’m not, but I’m a lot better than I used to be. I used to be psycho, but there was no health coverage so I had to get something more stable.

HB: OK, here’s my number, this is for you, nobody else. OK ?

NL9: OK… (I don’t let on that this is a bizarre request.)

She writes down: “Miss Kansas”


We talk for another 15 minutes or so. She clearly is enjoying it (as she has the whole conversation). Lots of fun.


Steve Boyley ( NLP Master & Trainer,

How to say “I’m the right age for you !”


Luck is the crossroads of opportunity and preparation. So it pays to be prepared. When the inevitable “How old are you ?” question comes up, be prepared! …. Say it with a smile now, teasingly: “I’m as old as you want me to be… as experienced or exciting as you desire me.”


Mystery (

(Commenting on Ross: “I think that the road is attraction, not seduction. I think this is actually a good distinction; I have told guys over and over and over and over that the goal of SS is to create an attraction, that allows them to choose what is going to happen.”):


Mystery Replies: I believe there is a further distinction … what is attractive ? Envy is the magic word. Envy is the powerful emotion that we wish to evoke in our target. Of course we want to make them attracted … but what is it that makes them want to be with us ?

I believe the word attraction connotates a sexual attraction – a horniness. This is not the case. We want them to want something from us. It isn’t sex because hell, they know they can get that from anyone. They will require a want for something from us. What though ?

If they envy something from you, they will be attracted to it … envy is a want for something someone else possesses. For instance, if you can get a girl thinking, “I sure wish I had his skill” or “I wish I had his positive outlook” or “I wish I had his lifestyle,” you are on the right track. The truth is, you want her wanting to be you. “I wish I was him.” “I wish I had that.”

What is that ? Could be a natural skill, social status, or, yes, even something material like money or a car. It could also be … a lot of things … comments ? Get her to think, “I wish I was him,” and the next best thing for her will be possessing you. I think lifestyle is a good sell. A lot of girls wish they were performers. So if you are already a performer then they will envy you. If you have a hot car (ok, bad example) and they wish they had one, they will feel good to at least ride in your hot car. If you have a special skill or power or intelligence or insight that in uncommon and they wish they had that particular skill or power, then they will feel better to at least try to possess you in hopes of the knowledge rubbing off you onto them.

Envy. If they envy you, they are attracted to you !

It may be enlightening to list things that they would be envious of. I’ll begin the exercise:

1. Your touch with the supernatural: wicca, tarot cards, psychic powers, mind powers, etc. Notice how this shit only works on girls who would be envious of you if you had what she wished she could have.

2. Skills: singing or public speaking, for instance. Again, she will be more envious if she already wants to be a singer or public speaker … or actress. Like minded individuals get along because one envies the other. Actors go out with actresses.

3. Stuff: yep, money and cars and homes. If they envy your stuff, this will attract them to you. Remember, though, that if they don’t envy this, then this means they won’t be attracted to you because of these things.

4. ???

Anyways, I make girls wish they had my mental abilities. As I look back upon my success stories, I notice that they all envied a particular trait of mine. They wished they had that trait. “I wish I could do what you do.” “I wish I had your job.” “I wish I had your life.” Get those thoughts in her head and you will land yourself a woman.

Comments ? By the way, I call it Mystery’s Envy Theory.



I’m wondering if anyone else has tried an approach where you just invite yourself into a conversation. I have been doing this a lot recently and it has worked pretty well. (The girls have been very receptive.) For example, last night went like this:


3 Girls in a group 7,7.5 and 8.5 “…yeah, I want to go as an X-man again this year.” (talking about Halloween)


Me (Turn to them out of nowhere) Wait, who was it that liked the X-Men ?

Girl 1, I was one for Halloween, and we’re trying to see if we all want to do it again.

Me, Cool, have y’all been to Halloween here yet …



This has worked the 10-15 times I’ve tried it. This group was a 3-set, and I # closed the oldest chick at the end of the night.

What do y’all think ? I just eavesdrop on the convo until something interesting is said, then I jump right in. I don’t comment on it, I always start with a question relating to that topic. Comments? Critiques?



I have a few comments about DJ’s forwarded letter from the older woman with whom he was corresponding.


The structure and language is excellent. It starts here with: “Well, it was a great ride while it lasted. I’ve read some of your posts here and I’m wondering if you haven’t perhaps tired of the game … if so, better for you. I’m going to share something with you that probably 2 people in the world know, since it’s not really part of who I am any more.”

– Pacing of the situation and evoking concepts of “sharing a secret”, and also carefully introducing the idea of “being tired of the game”, and framing that as being something good.

“I used to be a master (or perhaps mistress would be better) of seduction. I stopped counting my lovers when I reached triple digits and I wasn’t sure I had counted them all.”

– Isomorphic metaphor from the place of authority and experience. It’s something that she used to do, and she asserts authority with the “triple digits” comment. Not many men can make claims like that!

“I was probably about your age – maybe a bit older…”

– Added similarity in the metaphor to further pace the situation.

“And, of course, this was the carefree 70’s … free love and all that, women’s lib and the fact that women were finally realizing they had a sex drive as powerful and sometimes more powerful than a man. I could take a man home just by looking at him.”

– More powerful examples to entrench the authority frame.

“That, of course, stopped when I got married at 30 … even though my marriage sucked and was a mistake from the beginning. When I got separated and divorced, inadvertently, I found myself up to my old games. Which was okay, because I needed to sense myself as a woman again, needed to reattach myself to my sexual power since I’d buried it in a really awful, painful, abusive marriage.”

– Personal revelation to further cement the frame, and framing seduction as “old games,” which may have been “okay,” but …

“Then I discovered something even more powerful.”

– Something more powerful than seduction ? Response potential generation.

“That sex with the same person whom you have a strong attachment to in and out of bed can blow you away in ways that you never thought possible.”

Massive internal search for meaning with this sentence ! Introduction of the concept of committed monogamy as a better alternative to seduction.

“And that the fascination and attraction of the hunt and capture pale beside someone who learns your rhythms and your secret places, who opens up your vulnerability and shares theirs, who integrates love making into the fabric of your lives together.”

– Beautifully poetic and evocative language full of implied meaning, and the implied either / or options of “experience fascination and attraction of hunt and capture” or “be with someone who learns your rhythms and secret places.” Sensory / metastate language of “option X pales next to option Y.” This woman is Good with a capital G !

“There is a connection you can find that is beyond the best that the purely physical can offer. But it takes time, and the focus that one single lover can give. If you’re being satisfied whenever it strikes you, you forget to long for them, anticipate them, hunger for them. And you miss that lightning strike when you finally connect after absence and all the ways that you can connect when you’re apart.”

– This paragraph is just too good ! More ambiguous language, setting the anticipation for reward, and placing conditions upon its gain. Moves towards negative motivation of “all the things you’ll miss” if that path is not taken.

“There is so much more that you will miss.”

– Utilizing negative motivation, and leaving the message hanging without being specific about what more will be missed; leaving the reader to imagine what those things might be.

“PS – did you forget or did I forget to tell you that one of the things that I do in my strategic consulting is research via the internet ? Of course I checked you out when I realized I knew little about you. Here’s just a little of what I found.”

– Which goes to show you, for God’s sake be careful what you sign your name to on the Internet, because it can and will be found.

This entire message operates as a fantastic driver towards a monogamous relationship. I am not disputing the validity of the message, but commenting on its well-crafted vehicle of delivery. Assuming that it was written from the heart, it is also chock full of trance words, metaprograms, criteria and the like which seem to delineate her world-map very well.



With regards to Claude, he is a fairly common archetype of a natural PUA. A while ago, Maniac High posted something about a guy named Taro San, an international nomadic vagabond who seduces woman throughout Europe. He is poor, seldom employed, lives in flop house and barely speaks the language of his host country, yet he is a master of street PU. Yet like this Claude, it is somewhat hard to pinpoint what really makes them successful, at least in specific, detailed terms. It’s like a Stradivarius violin: the violin can be physically copied but its sound never replicated. Although a lot of it has to do with being the romantic bad boy, which is what woman seem to really like (like the character of Viril in George Orwell’s “Burmese Days”, the man who wanders from British outposts and seduces woman in the jungle).


I know of a couple guys who are “bad boys” who do very well with women. One guy I know had the left side of his face paralyzed as a child and now he talks with a funny accent. He is irritating, self-centered, 40 years old and works in a small ethnic grocery store, yet he pulls women. Part of it is that he says what is on his mind and is very individualistic; he does not hold back saying something even if it hurts someone. This has caused him to alienate himself with people. However, this guy recently had a birthday party and there were many attractive women there, most of who had borefriends.

What I was wondering was if this Claude only pulled certain types of woman, although I doubt it since the bad boy seems to have universal appeal to women. Also, what kind of strategy does he use to pull threesomes ? Is it sheer boldness or animal appeal that allows him to do this ? I mean Rick H. had a strategy …

It’s frustrating to hear of people like this Claude when you have this technology of SS. Although they do things that are incorporated in SS, I would find it hard for the bad boys to recite patterns, elicit values and make women feel good for the sake of seduction. But then again, maybe we are all natural PUAs deep down, we are just too inhibited to let that childlike side out in a regimented world.

Cliff’s Comment: Claude’s main strength was that he was a combination of being very cool, full of energy, and always looking to have fun and joke around. He would get women because they’d first enjoy his joking with them (and everyone), his coolness and he was a very sexy guy (always in fashion, although his style tended to be very casual, often a lot of sweat pants and relaxed outfits) who knew how to lead people in all situations. He was elusive in a way, also, which got them to chase him to a degree. He had his routines, doing magic tricks, telling jokes, etc. and he looked like he was doing important things and going important places. You wanted to find out what was happening.



Yesterday, while I was sitting in a diner at about 11:00 pm., a tall blonde HB with one of the most angelically beautiful faces I’ve ever seen got up and started walking toward me (and the register / exit). As she started approaching, I said the following:


“You can just keep walking (brief pause) and go home to another ordinary night (pause) or you can stop and sit down with me as you begin an adventure, make a new friend, and explore the type of romance that until now only existed in your wishes, dreams, and fantasies.”

I think this can be a very easy and effective method for your students to use. It instantly frames anything other than your desired response as ordinary, i.e. boring, while offering both a challenge and an opportunity.


Mystery (

(Commenting on Ross “I believe we are talking about the same type women. The type that Sys and Mystery get … young, beautiful, conceited but with low self esteem, shallow, and usually with closed minds and 0 taste in music. Club girls, in short.”)


Yes, young and beautiful are two qualities I prefer, although older but beautiful by all means still has a chance. As for conceited, truth is, conceit just goes with the territory of beautiful. They only act conceited because they know that they are beautiful, and they will know this only after socializing and getting hit on a lot.

Do I prefer this ? No, I just accept it. If I were to only go for the beautiful ones that have not yet been socialized, then I’d seriously be limiting my opportunities. And the more hot they are, the more likely they will be conceited.

As for low self esteem … they all have it. All people can be made to feel humbled, even girls who are near perfect. That is why negs are so powerful. Certainly UG ‘s have low self-esteem for good reason, they are often proven to be ugly. Think about it, you will know when you are ugly, but might not know that you are beautiful.

That is what self-esteem is all about. When a girl thinks she is hot, she may or may not be right. That isn’t the point, though. If she thinks she is hot, we must neg them to lower their bloated (accurate or not) self esteem down to the level of an UG. We humble them (without insulting them).

Are my GF’s conceited with me ? No. They are just conceited with strangers. They know they are hot … and they are right. They get approached a lot. They have proof of the “I am hot” statement demonstrated daily. I personally don’t have a problem with that, it’s just a matter of fact. Don’t take their conceit personally. If you do, you certainly will be limiting yourself greatly. They’re only conceited at first. Don’t worry people, really, it goes away.

Next, let me comment on shallow. Every girl is different. I cannot, to this day, figure out what people mean by shallow. Truth is, there are some who are goal-oriented and are listmakers, while some are not. Is it shallow to live day to day instead of living prepared a month in advance ? Well, if she is making good money stripping for instance, then she will not have to plan in advance. What is the difference between a stripper and a non-stripper ? The answer ? Going to a strip-club and stripping for money. With that will come some co-characteristics like the lack of need for planning and the fact that they are more pleasure-seeking than others who have decided to not indulge in pleasure (like the poor secretaries who hate the 9 to 5 rat-race.)

If a girl is hot and knows it, she may decide it’s easier to take advantage of that fact. Is that shallow ? Once she is in the money-making process, just like having any other job where you go everyday, you get a false sense of security, a sense that you will be at work the next day to make more money. With this security comes the fact that they will not have to design their month and be goal-oriented … so long as they just go to work on a regular basis. They then can enjoy the money they make, indulging in their humanity with the money.

Pleasure-seekers are what most of us would be if we were making a comfortable living.

On to closed minds: Do I like girls who are close-minded ? No. But also, not so open-minded that their brains fall out of their head. What does closed-minded mean ? Truth is, my gimmick (conveying a sense of mystery) appeals to the open mind. I enjoy the challenge of finding a girl a little off her rocker (they are truly more fun) and then improving their outlook (giving them a skeptical view of all the shit out there).

Lastly, as for “0 taste in music,” you are, however, spot on! Their music tastes suck shit. : P

(Commenting on: “That’s what I kinda think in some respects. I think virtually all women enjoy a funny, cocky guy. It’s the “never give her a straight answer” type evasion that is going to turn off a more mature woman with some self-esteem. She’ll love the cocky, love the funny, love the refusal to ass-kiss, but constant withholding of straight answers is going to piss off a woman with self-esteem and brains, and eventually bore her as well.”)

Disagree. Mystery is desired across the board. Self-esteem has nothing to do with the enjoyment of a good mystery. As for brains, well, the way I see it, if she is just plain ol’ dumb, then they won’t appreciate the mystery because seriously, the world is a mystery. They are used to everything not making sense and just accepting that … they’re the open-minded people ! The older you get, generally, the more information about the world you will download into your brain. So when a mystery comes along, it’s intriguing.

One last thought: fuck it, I could be completely wrong. I don’t know how women think. I just try to know. I do my best and I experiment a lot with them to figure out what makes them tick.



A few years ago for an experiment, an actor buddy of mine set me up with a heavy metal looking style wig (long hair) that definitely looked real, especially because it was covering up any of my real hair. I felt like a real idiot and was pretty worried about how the public would interpret me, but I went in to this night club near where I live anyway (in Connecticut).


Lo and behold I got the hottest chick in there all over me. And believe me, it was not related to my attitude, because I felt really embarrassed and insecure. I just kept my mouth shut so no one would find me out. Of course, after this chyck came up to me, I then felt more like myself.

I guess that “long haired” look resembles the manly main character on the cover of all those Harlequin Romance novels they read : )

As far as what happened afterwards, we ended up making out and could have taken it further. I did go on a second date with her, and I did wear the wig again, though I think her Mom saw right through me when she met me. I didn’t score another date after that.

I still think there’s something about long hair on a guy, maybe not the be all and the end all … but it would be cool to give it a further investigation. If it’s in the budget, I plan on having a high-end hair system done for me, using a Fabio style, or just long hair that’s a well kept kinda look thing. I am convinced that in America this is the look that attracts the HBs and SHBs.



(Commenting on: “So what does the group think ? Is the Intrigue of a Stranger more important – the shock value so-to-speak ? Or Pacing her Reality and SOI so she can call on her own experiences and feel more at ease ?”)


It depends on the girl and you (or more importantly, her perception of you). If she perceives you as dangerous, is that good or bad ? Well, does she want dangerous or not ? Most women will give you feedback. You need to use your sensory acuity to figure out if she’s scared or excited or bored, and then correct if necessary. If you see a girl on the train and she seems nervous to begin with, go with a softener like the one you mentioned (“I know this is a strange way …”). If she’s alert and looking around, mirror that back with open friendliness like it’s normal for you to talk. If she’s bored, act bored too. In 8 / 10 cases (clinically proven :-), mirroring her behavior back is the best first step. In the other 2 you need to base your actions on her, but it won’t be to act the same way she is (for instance, if she’s being snotty, you may need to provide a strong interrupt).

(Commenting on: “I’ve got the same problem. I’ve never been able to make on-line dating work because of the ‘photogenically challenged’ situation. In person, I can get my energy, confidence and voice across, as well as my touch. But as a picture, prior to hearing my voice …”)

So my suggestion is to overplay how ugly you are. Keep telling her you’re the ugliest man on earth and how lucky you are that women see past that because you would never be able to date such beautiful women otherwise. Lay it on thick. Send a picture of a donkey. Make her work for it. This won’t work 100% of the time, but I bet it will work more than 0% (which is where you are now)

(Commenting on a guru master: “Here is some advice I gave recently to an SS newbie, who wanted to know how to get started and start closing deals. I gave him a good, short pattern (from Bandler) and some general advice (snip about moving quickly for newbies). So, once you’ve managed to start a conversation, and she’s laughing, and you’ve got rapport (this should only take 90 seconds), ask her out. I’ll tell you what to say in a minute, but before I do it’s important for you to understand the basics. Do not force the conversation to last too long, because you face the risk of boring her. Make your interactions in the beginning short and sweet.”)

This is great advice. Start quickly, and slowly move to more advanced longer PU. The other more SS technique is to start long with lots of patterning, etc., but few closes, then as you get better you start to close.

(Commenting on: “And hit them with this:


You: (Taking a step back, tilting your head, furrowing your eyebrows, as if you’ve just noticed something intriguing about her.)

Her: (Smiling, wondering what’s going on.) What ?

You: (With extreme confidence.) What would I have to do to make you want to go out with me ? (You say “want to go out with me” like a command, not a question.)

I’m curious: has anyone else had good luck with this close ? I have not had good luck with similar ones, and I’m wondering what I’m doing wrong. Comments ?


(Commenting on: “She’ll eventually tell you. If it’s something stupid, like, buying her a car, look at her with disgust and walk away.”)

Are you mostly targeting older women (24+) ? I don’t have a good experience with this kind of thing with 18-24 year olds, as they still expect to be swept off their feet.

Commenting on Joseph’s comments)

I’m not going to respond to this in detail, because I feel it’s more of a knee jerk reaction to Sys’s knee jerk comments on SS, which he has certainly recanted to a degree. I think everyone here would eventually have to admit that they believe SS and AM both have real value when pushed … no need to argue anymore.

(Commenting on Ross: “Ha ha ha. I clicked on this one; these guys make my marketing look like Emily Dickinson. Ha ha ha. It’s worth it, just to have the book as a prop to meet women in bars! I’m going to order a copy just for that reason alone ! Bring it to a singles’ bar and don’t let anyone take a peek ! Ha ha ha ha ! Then, toss it aside, and start sarging ! Ha ha ha ha ha !”)

Let us know if the cover and book really look like the picture. I get the feeling it won’t. But if it does, it would be a pretty cool tool.

(Commenting on: “It’s funny that she claimed she and her ex-husband (short, 10 month marriage) never consummated the marriage and he refused to sleep with her for a long time prior to them getting married. I wonder why, and why she married a man like that ? I guess what I smelled that night was nowhere near the full potential of that beast. This was one of the scariest moments of my life, for I thought for sure she would press charges for some sort of sexual assault and I would have been finished. She did not.”)

Do you realize how screwed up this woman is ? The fact that her behavior seems even remotely normal to you should be enough to cause you great concern about yourself. Healthy people do not claim they never slept with their husbands of 10 months.

(Commenting on: “On another topic: one thing I noticed recently is that when I do not respond to a woman’s nonsense, she invariably ends up coming back nicer and more demure and apologetic than before. Recently, I’ve had women slam the phone on me, curse me and yell and tell me they did not want to speak to me again. I left them alone and did not pursue them and within a few days they ended up calling as if nothing happened and offered to take me out to lunch or dinner, or to cook something for me. Amazing, I think. It seems as if walking away from volatility and not acknowledging it shows a woman that you will not tolerate her nonsense and be a real man.”)

This is true, but dealing with these women is such a PITA (Pain In The Ass) that I don’t think it’s worth it. If it’s one isolated instance, OK, but continually ? No way.

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    2 replies to "Mystery Method Envy Theory"

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